Why Are Ranger/Archer-esque Classes Always Paired Up With Nature Themes? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Kagome · Aug 20, 2009, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

Well don't forget about Vampire Hunters as well.

Instead of the woodsy look, they sported the gothic dark style. Weilding crossbows and such. Don't see why all Hunters/Rangers have to be associated with nature. They weren't.

But yeah it is basically a stereotype. Anything that has a bow, is always associated with nature. Elves were always the number one when it came to Hunters/Rangers just cause of their love for animals and nature. Just the way life has made them out to be.

But I would like to see a Vampire Hunter style Ranger. Long dark Trenchcoat with a wide brim hat. Either using a crossbow or a modified longbow.

Aww that would be so cool! I hate the nature look (well, not hate, but am bored of...). D: I'd like a paragon-like armor for them, too.

And about the druids... if they joined the game, archers would be a separate entity and would not have to be nature-y! ^_^

Seed of Yggdrasil · Aug 20, 2009, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Garrett of the Thief games wasn't very nature oriented.

iToasterHD · Aug 20, 2009, 06:09 AM // 06:09

You guys are completely missing the feudal/medieval look. In military combat, back when they used bows, warfare was not about camouflage and sniping. English Longbowmen would stand in formations and fire upon the enemy. Samurai would used specially customized Yumi for horse mounted attacks (to name just two of hundreds of examples). Instead of a nature oriented, heavily inspired by elves; why not just a clean cut military archer?

I've seen trained horse mounted archers, and they are pretty impressive. They can only attack 1 person at a time, but with precision and speed. If you can't hide, you keep moving, right?

OutlawFMA · Aug 20, 2009, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Whenever I think of a Ranger in a RPG standpoint, I think being attuned with nature.

Nerel · Aug 20, 2009, 06:37 AM // 06:37

The 'real' archer based on actual medieval bow use was a WARRIOR, a professional or levy soldier who used a bow accompanied by more traditional warrior weapons (a short sword or polearm like a pike).

Garrett? Oh you mean THIEF, a THIEF character in a game entitled THIEF, ie NOT a ranger. Nothing to say Rogues can't use bows, of course... just, not a ranger.

The Vampire Hunter (aka long coat, broad rimmed hats etc) is based on the real world Witch Hunters with a healthy dose of Hammer film's Van Helsing archetype characters mixed in. Not really bow users, more likely to be armed with a brace of firearms (or a crossbow as technology permits). Not a bow user, not a hunter or ranger archetype... more suited to a rogue type.

The outdoor woodsy ranger archetype is very different, blame LotR/Tolkien, blame AD&D/Gary Gygax...

Of the options presented in the thread so far, the rogue archetype would make the most interesting replacement for the bow user in GW. Not that I have a problem with tree hugging rangers being followed around by their faithful animal companion.

Kagome · Aug 20, 2009, 06:49 AM // 06:49

But what IS a Ranger? There are no such things as Rangers in the real world so we can't use real life examples. I think the GW creators just made it because of the Legolas/elf theme. But with GW2 coming out, the Sylvari pretty much takes the place of the elf in RPG games. So I guess if they renamed the class to archer, it would work for all races. The Sylvari archer will be the most like GW1's Ranger.

drunk n angry · Aug 20, 2009, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kagome

I GUESS so but I'm still hoping for a more fancy archer. People also hunted with spears, throwing axes, etc. =/

ok i see you keep saying well people also hunted with >(blank) i'm happy you came away from saying swords cuz come on lol. throwing axes still wtf man noone ever hunted with a throwing axe unless they were a really bad shot and wasted all their arrows. and when they hunted with spears it was more the river indian tribes who piked fish or the early indians who hunter much larger game such as mammoths. just face it man time has proven still that a bow is a weapon of choice for many hunters including myself. going out in the woods, tracking your prey, finding the perfect vantage point from where your prey may just walk through or perhaps a feeding area, and then making that perfect shot with a bow. deer drops or runs, either way you are one with nature. i suggest you try it mate

. if you havent already.

HellScreamS · Aug 20, 2009, 07:30 AM // 07:30

crossbow snipers ftw!

Nerel · Aug 20, 2009, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kagome

But what IS a Ranger? There are no such things as Rangers in the real world so we can't use real life examples. I think the GW creators just made it because of the Legolas/elf theme. But with GW2 coming out, the Sylvari pretty much takes the place of the elf in RPG games. So I guess if they renamed the class to archer, it would work for all races. The Sylvari archer will be the most like GW1's Ranger.

Actually, there is such a thing as a ranger, in the real world... the original ranger was a gamekeeper... an outsdoor's man proficient in the hunt, tracking and similar wilderness lore, probably proficient in handling animals (hunting dogs and horsemanship), and depending on the period, either proficient with a bow, firearm or spear (in the case of boar hunting)... oh look a REAL ranger with real wilderness/animal skills related to marksmanship/bow use.

This use of the term predates both Tolkien's work and more modern fantasy cliches (Dungeon's and Dragons etc).

Obviously the term ranger has been adopted for military use since then.

drunk n angry · Aug 20, 2009, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

and depending on the period, either proficient with a bow, firearm or spear (in the case of boar hunting)...

never got to go boar hunting is there a good place to do this close to where i am at? i live in illinois any ideas? sounds fun now i have to look on the internet LOL> thanks for another hobby .

gremlin · Aug 20, 2009, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Fantasy tales gave us the Elven Archer so putting Bows and nature together.

In western military history the Bow was not a knightly weapon so the only people trained in its use were the peasantry again putting it into a hunting wilderness context.
It also took a lifetime to learn the bow so unless your living depended on it you wouldn't bother.

The crossbow would be the European military equivalent though even that became a hunting weapon.
Hope they add them for GW2.
Asura mechanical repeating crossbow.
Humans with a standard crossbow and the Norn with huge siege style weapons.

komma · Aug 20, 2009, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thrain Galdwin

In my opinion, The class name "Ranger" itself implies a relation to nature.

Nailed it right on the head.

Xsiriss · Aug 20, 2009, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Nowdays especially, rangers tend to be people who protect/monitor forests and wildlife. Ranger's origionated as gamekeepers,but then the term coming to be used as soldier's who specialise in ambushes.This all requires good knowledge of your surroundings,tracking and environment,so using cammo and knowing the right paths etc.

So that's kind of the base for the fantasy rangers really,just the class takes a more...well fantasy feel.

imnotyourmother · Aug 20, 2009, 01:16 PM // 13:16

A ranger can use any type of weapon. Change your SECONDARY and change you playing style. Or simply play a ranger with NO weapon at all??

What? Is this guy a loonie?

In the older days there were "touch rangers" These had nothing to do with nature.

Simply get your Exper to 16 attribute points and then get Necro as your secondary and BAAAAAM!

No more "nature" for this ranger. Touch them to death.. litterally.

So go and get the build for touch ranger...gather 3 more of your friends and go and try touchies in alliance battles. Its a blast. watch that Assassin shadow step to you and BOOOM in 2 seconds he takes 568 damage and he is dead dead dead.... Muwhahahah

The Scorpion Knight · Aug 20, 2009, 01:44 PM // 13:44

You never know they might change Rangers to Archer in GW2 lol.

Faure · Aug 20, 2009, 02:06 PM // 14:06

I think because in common fantasy setting the best bowers are Elfs, and they have a high relation to nature. Everything you see these days in mmorpgs (that are not based on some kind of world war or sf theme) are based on the fantasy realm. You can compare it to the LotR. There are always dwarfs who are brave but maybe not as smart, but excellent warrios. There are mages who are calm, and wise, but do massive damage through magic. There's the elfs who are the best bowmen plus a high relation to nature. Necromancers are dark, and are always somehow related to the death.

Etc. Imo it's just common fantasy-standards.

Imo this only applies for PvE. I wouldn't know why any PvP-er would care for the lore or background behind a class. It sees it as a role in a teambased play where it can function as front, mid, or backline. Screw the nature-relation.

Deakon · Aug 20, 2009, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakka Dakka

Those would work......though they would still have a Nature theme, Amazons were jungle hunters :/

But fear not! I heard that ANET was considering not making armor class specific in GW2!! Wish I knew where

It would be awesome if a character class could use runes from another class on their armor too!

Quaker · Aug 20, 2009, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Many RPGs follow a basic, traditional sword&sorcery model based loosely on things like the Lord of the Rings, Dungeons& Dragons, etc., etc.
So, therefore, Rangers are generally forest/nature based guys (often elves). Healers are generally Monks. Dwarfs are short warriors. Bad guys are ugly. Etc., etc.

Kagome · Aug 20, 2009, 09:38 PM // 21:38

I guess so. I really just want a ranger in a tux or a dress. xS

Nerel · Aug 20, 2009, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Have you considered making a ranger with a different primary profession, such as a Ritualist/Ranger bow caster or some similar build?

Edit...

"Necromancers are dark, and are always somehow related to the death."

Necromancy... DEATH PROPHECY. Somehow related to death? It's not such a leap. The term actually refers to some form of divination, using spirits/the deceased as a medium. The fantasy aspect is animating corpses/undead...

Aug 20, 2009, 11:38 PM // 23:38	#40
Nerel Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Australia, what you want my home address? Guild: [CAT] Profession: Mo/	Have you considered making a ranger with a different primary profession, such as a Ritualist/Ranger bow caster or some similar build? Edit... "Necromancers are dark, and are always somehow related to the death." Necromancy... DEATH PROPHECY. Somehow related to death? It's not such a leap. The term actually refers to some form of divination, using spirits/the deceased as a medium. The fantasy aspect is animating corpses/undead... Last edited by Nerel; Aug 20, 2009 at 11:41 PM // 23:41..

Aug 20, 2009, 06:05 AM // 06:05	#22
Seed of Yggdrasil Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jun 2006 Guild: The Fallen Keepers Profession: Mo/	Garrett of the Thief games wasn't very nature oriented.

Aug 20, 2009, 06:09 AM // 06:09	#23
iToasterHD Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Dec 2007 Guild: We Need Therapy [NOW] Profession: Rt/	You guys are completely missing the feudal/medieval look. In military combat, back when they used bows, warfare was not about camouflage and sniping. English Longbowmen would stand in formations and fire upon the enemy. Samurai would used specially customized Yumi for horse mounted attacks (to name just two of hundreds of examples). Instead of a nature oriented, heavily inspired by elves; why not just a clean cut military archer? I've seen trained horse mounted archers, and they are pretty impressive. They can only attack 1 person at a time, but with precision and speed. If you can't hide, you keep moving, right?

Aug 20, 2009, 06:30 AM // 06:30	#24
OutlawFMA Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Alabama Guild: Legends Of The Lost Souls (LOLS) Profession: E/	Whenever I think of a Ranger in a RPG standpoint, I think being attuned with nature.

Aug 20, 2009, 06:37 AM // 06:37	#25
Nerel Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Australia, what you want my home address? Guild: [CAT] Profession: Mo/	The 'real' archer based on actual medieval bow use was a WARRIOR, a professional or levy soldier who used a bow accompanied by more traditional warrior weapons (a short sword or polearm like a pike). Garrett? Oh you mean THIEF, a THIEF character in a game entitled THIEF, ie NOT a ranger. Nothing to say Rogues can't use bows, of course... just, not a ranger. The Vampire Hunter (aka long coat, broad rimmed hats etc) is based on the real world Witch Hunters with a healthy dose of Hammer film's Van Helsing archetype characters mixed in. Not really bow users, more likely to be armed with a brace of firearms (or a crossbow as technology permits). Not a bow user, not a hunter or ranger archetype... more suited to a rogue type. The outdoor woodsy ranger archetype is very different, blame LotR/Tolkien, blame AD&D/Gary Gygax... Of the options presented in the thread so far, the rogue archetype would make the most interesting replacement for the bow user in GW. Not that I have a problem with tree hugging rangers being followed around by their faithful animal companion.

Aug 20, 2009, 06:49 AM // 06:49	#26
Kagome Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Missouri Profession: R/A	But what IS a Ranger? There are no such things as Rangers in the real world so we can't use real life examples. I think the GW creators just made it because of the Legolas/elf theme. But with GW2 coming out, the Sylvari pretty much takes the place of the elf in RPG games. So I guess if they renamed the class to archer, it would work for all races. The Sylvari archer will be the most like GW1's Ranger.

Aug 20, 2009, 07:30 AM // 07:30	#28
HellScreamS Krytan Explorer Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: wouldn't you like to know? Guild: ^yea KFC just subscribed to me for 1 year^ Profession: P/	crossbow snipers ftw!

Aug 20, 2009, 09:20 AM // 09:20	#31
gremlin Furnace Stoker Join Date: Oct 2006 Guild: GWAR Profession: Me/Mo	Fantasy tales gave us the Elven Archer so putting Bows and nature together. In western military history the Bow was not a knightly weapon so the only people trained in its use were the peasantry again putting it into a hunting wilderness context. It also took a lifetime to learn the bow so unless your living depended on it you wouldn't bother. The crossbow would be the European military equivalent though even that became a hunting weapon. Hope they add them for GW2. Asura mechanical repeating crossbow. Humans with a standard crossbow and the Norn with huge siege style weapons.

Aug 20, 2009, 01:08 PM // 13:08	#33
Xsiriss Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2008	Nowdays especially, rangers tend to be people who protect/monitor forests and wildlife. Ranger's origionated as gamekeepers,but then the term coming to be used as soldier's who specialise in ambushes.This all requires good knowledge of your surroundings,tracking and environment,so using cammo and knowing the right paths etc. So that's kind of the base for the fantasy rangers really,just the class takes a more...well fantasy feel.

Aug 20, 2009, 01:16 PM // 13:16	#34
imnotyourmother Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: in a house Guild: The Knitters Guild Profession: W/R	A ranger can use any type of weapon. Change your SECONDARY and change you playing style. Or simply play a ranger with NO weapon at all?? What? Is this guy a loonie? In the older days there were "touch rangers" These had nothing to do with nature. Simply get your Exper to 16 attribute points and then get Necro as your secondary and BAAAAAM! No more "nature" for this ranger. Touch them to death.. litterally. So go and get the build for touch ranger...gather 3 more of your friends and go and try touchies in alliance battles. Its a blast. watch that Assassin shadow step to you and BOOOM in 2 seconds he takes 568 damage and he is dead dead dead.... Muwhahahah

Aug 20, 2009, 01:44 PM // 13:44	#35
The Scorpion Knight Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2009	You never know they might change Rangers to Archer in GW2 lol.

Aug 20, 2009, 02:06 PM // 14:06	#36
Faure Krytan Explorer Join Date: Feb 2006 Guild: Mystic Spiral [MYST] Profession: R/	I think because in common fantasy setting the best bowers are Elfs, and they have a high relation to nature. Everything you see these days in mmorpgs (that are not based on some kind of world war or sf theme) are based on the fantasy realm. You can compare it to the LotR. There are always dwarfs who are brave but maybe not as smart, but excellent warrios. There are mages who are calm, and wise, but do massive damage through magic. There's the elfs who are the best bowmen plus a high relation to nature. Necromancers are dark, and are always somehow related to the death. Etc. Imo it's just common fantasy-standards. Imo this only applies for PvE. I wouldn't know why any PvP-er would care for the lore or background behind a class. It sees it as a role in a teambased play where it can function as front, mid, or backline. Screw the nature-relation.

Aug 20, 2009, 03:52 PM // 15:52	#38
Quaker Hell's Protector Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Guild: Brothers Disgruntled	Many RPGs follow a basic, traditional sword&sorcery model based loosely on things like the Lord of the Rings, Dungeons& Dragons, etc., etc. So, therefore, Rangers are generally forest/nature based guys (often elves). Healers are generally Monks. Dwarfs are short warriors. Bad guys are ugly. Etc., etc.

Aug 20, 2009, 09:38 PM // 21:38	#39
Kagome Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Missouri Profession: R/A	I guess so. I really just want a ranger in a tux or a dress. xS